Just got off phone with HPI in regards to Savage Flux Lipo's, gears, NIMH and diffs [Archive]

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Freezebyte

06-03-2009, 08:29 PM

I just got off the phone with HPI customer support after emailing them about the following email:

Dear HPI

The following is a copy of an email sent to SMC batteries in regards to a VERY large issue with peoples Flux's MMM ESC's dying as result of poor quality Lipo batteries. We have Castle Creations stating that their MMM ESC product works best on 25C or above rated batteries which can provide at least 120 continuous amps to prevent damage to the MMM from power flucuations and spikes. Castle Creations has stated that your suggesting that the Flux can be powered via NIMH also contradicts completely with what the Castle president has stated in the following threads.

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20951

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18981

Your company has obligations to give us consumers that purchase YOUR PRODUCTS the BEST and MOST ACCURATE information possible for us to run our products that will give them long life and reliability. We ask that you provide publicly announced and provided UP TO DATE details in regards to what BOTH YOU AND CASTLE CREATIONS agree upon on which batteries and specific battery ratings will work best win the Savage Flux RC trucks and the equipment that powers them.

Thank your your time.

Sincerely,

************
Concerned HPI Savage Flux owner

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8821191/tm.htm

Within 2 minutes I had a call on my cell phone and I spoke with HPI rep named "Mike" at extenstion 168. Me and him had a VERY interesting and enlighting conversation. I will relate as much accurate wording as I am able to recall about our conversation. I feel obligated to share this inforation not only for Savage Flux owners, but other RC people alike on forums. Mike has stated he will back up this following conversation and statements in regards to HPI and its commitment to its customers and products, so feel free to contact him if you have questions or don't believe the following conversation.

Cell Phone rings from unknown out of state area code, so I decide to answer, unsure what to think

Hello?

"Yes, hello, Am I speaking with Bryce?"

"This is him"

"Hello Bryce this is Mike from HPI and I just read your email to us and I'm wanting to speak with you further in regards to this issue and get some clarification"

"Hello Mike, yes I have some serious concerns in regards to the information both you and Castle Creation have stated in regards to battery specifications to run your product. ALOT of people have been having MMM ESC fried as a result of poor Lipo's. You have stated on page 7 of your Savage Flux manual that you RECOMMEND 25C rated Lipo batteries and Castle has stated the same thing. Is this true?"

"Yes, we recommend no lower then 25C rated Lipo's in order for the Flux ESC and motor to run efficently and reliably as possible. In regards to SMC batteries, they are some of the top rated batteries we've ever run. I personally know Brian at SMC and they make some of the best products and our testing vouches for that. I actually ran the same type of batteries that you do at the NC championships last week and they were awesome batteries. I have also tried their 9000mAh rated Lipo's and they also were excellent"

"Castle Creations president has stated on the RC-Monster.com forums they also recommend higher quality Lipo's to prevent damage to their MMM ESC as lower quality and rated Lipo's can induce power spikes that can easily damage or fry the ESC as MANY people are attesting too. Would that be accurate as well?"

"Yes, very much so however I will point out that HPI has never turned down a burnt or damaged ESC claim before and will not do so. We cannot specifically ask or order or clients to give us specific information into when, why, how of their product usage as thats simply bad customer service and we value our customers higher then to grill on them on such specific details. Castle is also the same way"

"Well thats very good to hear. This is my first brushless and Lipo setup and so far am very happy with it"

"I'm very glad to hear that, I enjoy mine as well"

"But then it almost seems like mis information as you guys also state that you can run the Savage Flux via NIMH batteries. Castles president has stated they NIMH just simply don't have the discharge outpout to reliably run their equipment and dont' recommend it but you guys state in the manual that you can. Can you elaborate?"

"Certainly. We've done extensive testing with the Savage flux and Castles MMM ESC and though YOU CAN power the MMM via NIMH, IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED. NIMH of course do not have as high or reliable discharge current as Lipo's, so you are risking a possible failure of the ESC as a result but again however, we will not turn down a claim as a result of using NIMH on our product"

"I see, but it would seem somewhat counter intuitive for you to make recommendations that may result in higher product failures on both you and Castle creations end?"

"Again, you can run our Savage Flux with NIMH batteries, we just don't recommend it for the following reasons that it does increase your chances of damaging the ESC and once again, we will back up our claims and will process any RMA'ed ESC as a result of running NIMH, its simply our way of supporting our customers"

"Well thats excellent to hear, especially after having a Traxxas Revo two years ago, which I won't even get into"

*Mike laughs into phone*

"That brings me to my next concern as well as ALOT of other Flux owners. You state in your manual that you recommend installing the 25T pinion on the Flux while using 6S Lipo's. This has been brought up in topics about people frying their ESC's as a result of the increased power draw and stress on the system and Castle Creations president has also stated that this is not recommened for their products. Whats the deal?"

"To make sure we do not give false advertisment, which is that our Savage Flux can run up to 62MPH out of the box, which it can, we PROVIDE the necassary gear, in this case the 25T pinion for us to make and back up the claim. However, you and Castles president is correct, it is very stressful on the system and it borders on redline as far as danger and stressing the components of the Flux.

"I noticed that below those street claims you state to run 6S lipo and run your street tires to reach those speeds"

"Correct. It also is the same recommendation for our new Tork 2650kv motor is designed purely for TOP SPEED. It it designed to be basically run in straight lines"

"So you are stating that the 2650kv motor would not be an idea choice for all around bashing?"

"Correct, its for impressing and speed runs, nothing more and again, it will push Lipo and the ESC to its limits, therebye requiring top quality Lipo's to order to run saftely"

"So what gearing ratio would you recommend then if someone like me whos thining about trying 6S and not having to worry about frying my ESC or Lipos?"

"I would go no higher then 22T pinion"

"So running the stock 20T pinion would be just fine?"

"Yes, you will not reach the top advertised speed but you will reduce the strain on the ESC, motor and Lipo' vs using the 25T pinion"

"Speaking of strain, there has been ALOT of issues in regards to people breaking the drivetrain on the Flux's"

"Are you speaking in regards to the top drive gear wear in the center diff?

"Uhh, well that also is an issue and i'm on my second one with grease and its still being filed away"

"We are aware of that and hence we have released the hardened steel version to help reduce this problem. Have you placed an order for one?

"No, everyone is on back order, I can't find one anywhere"

"Let me go ahead and put you in the que for back order one as I personally want to take care of my customers"

"Well thank you very much, that speaks volumes for your customer service and HPI"

"Most welcome"

"But other people are having many issues with the front and rear diffs breaking and failing under many different situations"

"The Savage Flux puts out ALOT of power and torque in an instant and no RC product capable of withstanding standing backflips, hard jackrabbit starts and brakes. We are aware of this issue and I though CANNOT state specifics, HPI will have a public announcement and solution to this problem in the coming month. The standing backflips though impressive, amount to most of the damaged diffs claims we have seen, but we will honor and replace them"

"Really? So you are aware of the amount of diffs problems with the Fluxs?

"Yes and again, we will not turn down any RMA'ed differentials and again, I cannot state specifics on what the announcement will be in regards too but rest assured, we have an answer for our customers"

"Awesome to hear Mike. That says alot for your guys reputation in regards to customer service and support. This is my first HPI product and other then these few issues, I love the crap out of it, its been so enjoyable in comparison to nitro"

"I am very glad to hear that. Again, SMC puts out top notch quality batteries and I have tested their new 9000mAh Lipo and they are awesome. They are also planning on releasing a hard cased 3S Lipo on the near future since you sound interested in running 6S. It sounds like in regards to this gentlemen who was told that SMC's 18C batteries would be enough to run the system that he was simply misinformed via the LHS and or word of mouth which sadly, theres not much we can do about. But we will handle all claims irregardless of reason for our products, we don't turn out customers down"

Freezebyte

06-03-2009, 08:30 PM

"Wow, thanks so very much Mike for your input, honesty and service in regards to this. Me and many other Flux owners have put down alot of money into these trucks and just want to protect our investment and be told accurate information on how to keep them running reliably"

"Very understandable and again, we will do ALL CLAIMS in regards to failure of our products, regardless of how it happened. Customers are encouraged to call us directly for answers to their questions. Emailing only goes so far and tends to get mis communicated, I prefer one on one speaking with my customers such as myself"

"I agree, I work as a proffessional IT tech for a large invesment firm and in the end, nothing speaks volumes more then speaking and helping your customer on a face to face basis"

"I agree with you completely, you are free to share this information with people on the web as well as how to get ahold of me. I have no qualms of backing up my statments or HPI's products, thats what I'm here for and I enjoy it"

"Mike, thanks so much for your time, understanding and information. It does speak volumes for your and HPI, especially when you called me within just a few minutes of my sending the email. I was surprised to see my cell phone ringing with and outside zip code and it turned out to be you!"

"Yes, after reading your email, I was confused and mostly concerned with what was going on and I felt that a phone conversation was the best way to help you. Again if you have any further questions or concerns, you may reach me at EXT #168 or anyone else for that matter if they want more information"

Thanks again Mike!

"Your most welcome Bryce!"

Wow, well I certainly wasn't expecting THAT from HPI and so fast! This speaks volumes that they really do care about us, their customers and are willing to go great length to help keep us happy and back up their products. Savage Flux owners, I think its safe to say that HPI will take care of us and our beloved Flux's now and for the forseeable future! Rock on HPI, Castle Creations and SMC!

Bartek

06-03-2009, 08:58 PM

ah, so much reading, couldn't you make it be shorter :P
it's good to know and SMC is really awesome but expensive, I got my Venoms for two only £100 when just one SMC 2s is £100 plus £10 for connectors which gives £220 for two...
bit too expensive for me right now.

Eman77

06-03-2009, 09:29 PM

Thanks for sharing, Freeze. Very good info in there.

RedLine

06-04-2009, 01:07 AM

Thanks for sharing, Freeze. Very good info in there.

Ditto to that. :cool:

killermmn

06-04-2009, 01:35 AM

freeze your making mutliple post almost in 5 forum and plus!!
you passing the word for sure!!:D

Freezebyte

06-04-2009, 01:44 AM

freeze your making mutliple post almost in 5 forum and plus!!
you passing the word for sure!!:D

Damn right, I want this knowledge spread to as many Flux and brushless owners as possible, so if you have another RC forum suggestion for me to visit, fire away.

BitHed

06-04-2009, 02:05 AM

...Thanks for posting this FB :cool:

rawfuls

06-04-2009, 02:17 AM

Thought I might have to point something out.
Many, and I mean, MANY people are using the MMM 2650kV combo in their truggys, they bash, they race, and more.

It all comes down to gearing, heck, you could probably push your E-Savage with a MM 4600 combo if you really wanted to, if you wanted to gear it for about 20mph.

If you want to bash with the 2650kV motor, you can, it's just not recommended.
As long as you gear down appropiately, it'll be fine.

I might be wrong, but eh, worth a try

In case for those people who are wondering, the "Tork and Flux" are the exact same thing as the Mamba Max Monster, and Steve Neu's motors.

killermmn

06-04-2009, 03:14 AM

Damn right, I want this knowledge spread to as many Flux and brushless owners as possible, so if you have another RC forum suggestion for me to visit, fire away.

http://hpisavageforum.com/

there i am ban there!
dont know why?

roadrunner96

06-04-2009, 04:59 PM

hmm, very different, I've seen the overpowering of esc's- like the motors glitching on the GT esc and the EVX2's when batteries are freshly charged which creates a slight "over" voltage until you discharge the battery a little then everything runs fine, but really - UNDERPOWERING USING NIMH CAN BURN UP A MMM ESC? THAT JUST SOUNDS CHEAP AND COMPLETELY BASSACKWARDS:mad: And to think I almost got a flux to use with my 4500mah batteries - THE FLUX IS PROVEN TO BE A SERIOUS POWERHOG!!!!! Think I'll stick with the proven e-sav on 6-cell batts:D I think HPI and Castle are going to be up "$HITCREEK WITHOUT A PADDLE" for a $625+ TRUCK MAKING A LOT OF CUSTOMERS ANGRY - BUT no HPI, instead of updating a excellent platform (AND LISTENING TO US)such as the e-sav to be a little bigger,little more powerfull, updating drivetrain.etc. YOU HAD TO GO AND MAKE OVERKILL SUCH AS THE FLUX and now its gonna bite ya in tha @$$!!!!!!!!!!!!:p

and as far as brushless being more "EFFICIENT", THIS isn't very Efficient at all!!!!!!!!!!!!

jeffp

06-04-2009, 06:39 PM

Brushless is actually very efficient. Try pulling a 13lb truck to 40+ mph on dual brushed motors! :p These big heavy electric conversions need quality Lipo batteries. If your not willing to put out the money for good batteries then maybe you should just stick to the smaller 1/10th size MT's that you can use NiMH's on safely or go nitro.

Freezebyte

06-04-2009, 06:43 PM

In response to this thread that kinda got outa hand, im also going to post the response I got from Bryan at SMC just to prove how awesome of a guy he is and SMC about their products and customer support.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8821191/mpage_3/tm.htm

Bryce,

We have ran the 3418LD in our trucks with no problems. We each only have about 10-15 runs on the packs and our ESC is in good shape. The system still performs the way it did when it was brand new. We just got back from the No Limit R/C World Finals and my truck was good enough to win the long jump on 2 2S packs, some 63 feet I believe, even after supposedly doing damage after using the lower "C" rated batteries. If I or anyone that is associated with SMC say that our 18C, 24C, or any other "C" rated battery works fine in a particular application, this is our testing. If we haven't fried anything on our trucks why would anyone else. As I explained to you yesterday, each company's "C" rating can and probably is measured differently, so a 18C SMC may be equivalent to another company's 25C. As I also stated yesterday, one of HPI's drivers/employee used that same pack the entire weekend at the Toyota Long Beach Grand Prix two months ago and had zero issues while using those packs. And yes, I did talk to a gentleman yesterday and told him that the pack works with the MMM to our knowledge. I told him that I couldn't guarantee him anything as this is based solely on our information and information given to us by those who test our products.

The most important detail in this theory of needing a 25C or 30C battery so stated by CC is...What battery do they recommend? Have they tested a battery that has a TRUE "C" rating? I have only heard of one customer who has an issue with any of SMC's LiPo's in his FLUX. He was using our 2624LD, 2600 mAh 24C LiPo. The owner thought that his charger may have been the issue so we tested the same packs in my personal FLUX Savage. I charged the packs, ran the truck then as soon as the batteries died I brought them right back to the charger and did the process all over again. I ran those packs 4 consecutive times, no breaks, no down time unless you count charging as down time) with zero issues. If there are issues with our products, we should see them as we run our two trucks 4 days a week, 2-3 times each day.

I'll check out the link in your email now. Also, I understand you want to protect your investment as I want to protect mine. The FLUX Savage is by no means a cheap or starter R/C vehicle but the general R/C public need to understand that ALL electronics can have issues! An ESC, motor, battery, servo, receiver...Any thing can have a defect.

Thanks,

Bryan @ SMC

Bryce,

Just looked @ the hpi manual and it says..."We recommend battery packs with a 25C rating or better. Using batteries with a lower C rating may result in damage to your batteries." CC may have more information to there products, but it doesn't say that lower "C" rated batteries will damage the ESC, at least not in the hpi manual. I just looked at your thread in the last email and I didn't see any posts from anyone saying they had fried a MMM ESC form using lower "C" rated batteries. The only thing I saw was a guy being picked apart for using a lower "C" rated battery, ours of course. As I told the gentleman yesterday, we see good results, we do not say we recommend them, nor do we say hpi recommends them. Our testing shows they are capable of usage without harm to any component of the truck. I also told the gentleman that we have a 5500 mAh 28C 11.1v LiPo if the 18C would not work or was not up to his standards.

SMC is not in the business of providing false or misleading information. We do not advertise in any magazine, so our strong backing and long list of customers comes solely from word of mouth and track performance. Hobbyists are sold on our great reputation and our high quality products. I'm sorry if we disagree on the requirements of the CC MMM ESC, but this is just from OUR personal testing. Again, thank you for the kind words about our 6028LD packs. They are a hot item and they work very well in the FLUX Savage as power output and runtime is very impressive. I hope you continue to have great success with our products and continue to be a supporter of SMC's.

Thanks,

Bryan @ SMC

Bryce,

Actually, he pm'd me and told me to look at what he had posted. He is a friend from the hpisavageforum, but I did not send him on there. You haven't inconvenienced SMC or me. You wanted a straight answer and we or I did the best to our abilities to bring this to you. The internet can be a horrible place and it can be a very nice place to hang out and chat and trust me, I know about things getting scrambled in translation. We don't have plans as of now to bring out a hardcase LiPo in 3s configuration as it would greatly reduce the capacity of the pack. If you call up HPI and ask to speak to Michael McAllister is customer service, he will tell you that he was running the softcase 8000mAh 28C and 9000mAh 28C 2s packs throughout the weekend at the World Finals. These softcase packs were also used by myself, our other employee Scott, John Schultz from HPI and just about all of the No Limit R/C staff and groups. There is always the possibility that a pack can become damaged, even in a hardcase and I have seen this happen. If you would like to run the softcase packs, you could cut some .30 or.40 lexan strips to cover up the holes in the battery box, keeping rocks and debris out of the compartment. As for the wires, yes they are a bit short but the battery box needs to be modified for issue free usage. Everyone I know with a Savage Flux, even the HPI guys, remove some material from the top of the box, allowing the wires to come directly out of the top instead of trying to fandangle them through the "way to small" opening on the back of the compartment. I think I have pics somewhere of my personal modification. If you need them, let me know.

Again, no worries or hard feelings about this issue. We are here for our customers and you fall into that category.

Thanks,

Bryan @ SMC

Aero007

06-04-2009, 09:13 PM

yikes, thatsa lotta links and reading to do..can you sum it up ?

cc/hpi is somehow in a camouflace age, not to mention that motor..

is 2650kv motor better on 4s, and then 2200 on 6s or ?

25c batteries needed ? if 20c batteries don get hot, why worry ?

FB> great info man! will read later ;)

Freezebyte

06-04-2009, 10:22 PM

Camoflauge? What? The 2650v motor is designed for HIGH SPEED, even faster then the 2200v.

rawfuls

06-05-2009, 02:06 AM

Using NiMH is definitely not recommend, you're pretty much asking, to run a race car, that runs race premium fuel, to run on our standard fuel.

It'll work, but the race car will want to pull tons of more fuel, and the standard fuel can't supply enough, thus ruining the engine.

Just like the MMM.

The MMM wants TONS of power, using weak NiMH's can't hardly put out enough power to feed it, and thus, the MMM can't supply the voltage the motor wants, so instead of the batteries going out, the MMM goes out.

Confusing isn't it?

JOCKTHEGLIDE

06-08-2009, 11:58 AM

im totally speechless about HPI and SMC...they proved customer service in my eyes thats for damn sure glad I got the flux over the emaxx due to durability.

Aero007

06-08-2009, 01:11 PM

Camoflauge? What? The 2650v motor is designed for HIGH SPEED, even faster then the 2200v.

FT> camouflage ..like stick a sticker on this and that. venom's 120a esc look alot like the MM 100a. (that presumed got smaller mosfets on newer ones). some rc chargers look alot alike, has different names..the same with motors.

i think its called rebadging. high kv=high speed. low kv=low speed.so i figure which of 'those two' motors are high and low speed, all other config being the same.

The MMM wants TONS of power

blur esc is the same right ? all that power make one think whats its built for..maybe an XTM mammoth drivetrain..

scottb

06-08-2009, 06:49 PM

...and volts, or, may I saw watts.

I have to chime in RE Rawfuls' comments. He is correct in stating gearing is everything. I ran a MM 4600 in my e-savage (before I sold it) - but I had to gear it down massively to keep it from heating up. I ran it on 3S and it was much lighter than stock, so it had almost the same overall acceleration.

I just ordered a savage flux and will probably gear it down as well. I don't need 30mph+, so I'll just put in a 16t pinion and keep the motor cool (any recommendations on gearing appreciated). If you gear low enough, the motor doesn't have to work nearly as hard (amp draw is significantly less). This reduces the heat inside the batteries (resistance) and the heat inside the esc. I have a friend who flies big planes and heli's who uses a watt meter to measure everything. I think us truck-fans could learn a thing or two from the air-heads - gear accordingly (usually low) and tailor the power system to the vehicle. E.g.: If using nimh batteries, gear low.

Quick question: this truck uses 5mm shaft, 1 modulus gears?

Thanks Bithed for the great site - it's been a while since I've been here,
sb

jeffp

06-09-2009, 09:10 AM

Yeah the flux motor uses a 5mm shaft and mod1 gearing.

FAB ESAV

06-11-2009, 08:56 PM

Lipo NOOB question here: If I get a Savage Flux, just want to bash and have fun-nothing competitive AT ALL.

Will I have any issues at all running it on 2 Rhino 4900mAh 2S1P 20C Lipoly Packs with the following specs:

Capacity: 4900mAh
Constant discharge: 20C
Burst rate: 30C (15sec)
Configuration : 2S 7.4v
Pack size: 175x46x18
Weight : 270g (true weight, incl. wire & plug)

I noticed this thread...

http://e-savage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4541

and using the info Joey provided (thanks BTW) I calculated a battery's current rating to be 98A. So now I am not sure if this is an adequate set of packs to use in a Flux as he is recommending at least 150A? :confused: I am just not too clear as to why the current rating needs to be this high?

Again, just want to pick a battery that I can safely run in my brushless Blackjack 26 and a Flux and try my best to not go broke in the process. I am planning on purchasing a Hyperion HP-EOS0606i AC/DC Charger / Balancer (any feedback on if this would be good choice would be cool too).

I am not very technical with RC and Lipo is a whole new world (again) so any help is greatly appreciated.

generis

06-12-2009, 12:16 AM

charger is perfect, but I'd head for some slightly higher amp lipos.. around 120 amps would be more happy. Don't try to shave some $ on the batts for a flux.

fastbaja5b

06-12-2009, 12:45 AM

braunyrez

06-12-2009, 01:18 AM

Holy crap, this is all confusing, the battery thing and all. I have a stockish Esav, a brushless Esav(with MM ), and a stock Slash. I just ordered these

http://www.rclipos.com/PQ-5100RXP-2S.htm (25c/50c)

I am assuming that these batteries will be good for my apps(I hope)
But I have been thinking of upgrading to the MMM combo or the Flux one day,
will I be needing a new set of batteries? It seems that its getting to be the "battery or the month" thing with the c-factor.

BTW There was a E-Revo at the track yesterday running 3c2p Zippi-h lipos and that thing was running like a "raped ape". If hes running in the 4x4 electric truck class Im gonna be upgrading sooner that I want to.

fastbaja5b

06-12-2009, 02:26 AM

Aero007

06-12-2009, 05:41 PM

those polyquest pack can make one drool..unfort the swmbo does not let that kinda money justice...

90+ usd..why not get 30c cells at first.. im a 'cheap lipo' lover but if spending 90+usd, why not add a few dollars and get 30c maybe..

man it doesnt do justice to buy and buy more and more lipos..i wish..

if you have lipos anyway you can use them, just watch the temp good. low temp = no worries. (right?)

FAB ESAV

06-12-2009, 06:35 PM

charger is perfect, but I'd head for some slightly higher amp lipos.. around 120 amps would be more happy. Don't try to shave some $ on the batts for a flux.

Thanks Generis, I appreciate the feedback...I thought those lipos were too good of a deal to be true....:p

FAB ESAV

06-12-2009, 06:40 PM

Guys it's been said dozens of times.

120 Amps constant MINIMUM on the Flux

Not 115 and certainly not 98!

Yes those packs will work, maybe even for a dozen or so runs, but don't bitch on here if you puff the packs and/or blow the ESC through ripple current.

Why people want to put cheapy Lipos in a high end truck is beyond me, what's next, Jenson Button running his F1 on pump gas?

This is why I (and most people) ask questions BEFORE I buy anything, so there really is no need for comments like "don't bitch on here if you puff the packs and/or blow the ESC through ripple current".

I want to make sure that I get proper gear so I don't have problems down the road and to answer your other question "Why people want to put cheapy Lipos in a high end truck..." that is easy...they don't know better and don't ask questions....do you see where I am going with this? :D

Anyhow, I still thank you for your input on the batteries. I will def. wait until I can get some Lipos with a 120+ rating.

What I am still trying to understand why do these ESC need so much current to run safely?

generis

06-12-2009, 08:58 PM

If it's any help, my rclipos.com order came in short time, and no import fees... and great company they are.. I'll be a return customer there for sure. My zeneee batts are also great lipos, and no import fees, but took longer.

on the current eating: I have to ask the same ? as you. The e-sav bl trucks just don't eat the same power as the flux/ CC combo. The only way I can think of explaining this is to say the 'pipe' on the MambaMax and others is smaller than the pipe on the MMM or flux combo.. it CAN handle more, and WILL pass more power along to the motor, where as the smaller MambaMax has a smaller 'pipe' and will only let so much through at once. But, I would never try to run the big flux on a MambaMax, so I must conclude that this is the right setup for the truck.... but eats batteries..

Interesting that I also thought my 99 amp constant lipos were big enough for most anything, but after using them in the flux, i stand corrected. Just not enough to feed the pipe.. like the pump burned out trying...

FAB ESAV

06-14-2009, 12:49 AM

Thanks again Generis, and thanks for explaining it in plain english I can follow. I think once I sell off my trucks I will probably place my battery order through rclipos.com as well. The no duty and import hassle is very cool & quick delivery is also a plus.

Did you buy their soft case house brand (PolyRC) of Lipos?

This one looked interesting:

Poly RC PQ-6100LP-2S Li-Poly Battery In Stock $77.59
Product 7.4V 6100mAh (2 cells) 18C/30C
Rating: 18C (109.8A) continuous, 30C (183.0A) burst
Dimension: 167mm x 46mm x 20mm
Weight: 290 grams
Termination: Wire & Polyquest/Poly RC/Hyperion tap

If my math is right, these things will hit 183A! Wow! I would guess that this should do the trick for the flux! :D

fastbaja5b

06-14-2009, 04:59 AM

You need to go by the constant rating not the burst rating.

The constant on that is 109.8A

is that less than 120 Amps?

If it is, it's insufficient

generis

06-14-2009, 09:07 PM

fastbaja5b

06-15-2009, 12:54 AM

Yep I run 2* 2s 30C 5000mah batteries in my Flux and get 10-12 minutes at best.

Compare that to my Slash with a VXL set up running a 2s 20C 3200mah Lipo and I get 15-20 minutes

Extol

06-15-2009, 02:07 PM

Yep I run 2* 2s 30C 5000mah batteries in my Flux and get 10-12 minutes at best.

Compare that to my Slash with a VXL set up running a 2s 20C 3200mah Lipo and I get 15-20 minutes

Might wanna check your packs...2s 40c/80c 5000mah i get 30min run time easy

generis

06-15-2009, 02:10 PM

9 minutes hard bash, and 15 if lucky on mixed bash. 5000 40c or 5000 35c

Extol

06-15-2009, 02:16 PM

9 minutes hard bash, and 15 if lucky on mixed bash. 5000 40c or 5000 35c

ok whats going on here.. I have my ESC with max everything out. Truck is pulling a lot more power then before and i am still geting 30+ min run times. I went to a lowes parking lot over the weekend to see how fast i could get the truck up to with a lot of open space. Hard Running non stop got right at 33min of run time. at my bash pit i get 40 or so..HELP i dont understand this

generis

06-15-2009, 02:31 PM

FAB ESAV

06-15-2009, 04:07 PM

yeah. That's a really good battery, but FB is right. The constant draw of this thing is really that high. Those batteries would likely last over 30 minutes in your average BL e-savage, but likely overheat internally in a flux. They have nice 25 and 35c 5000's there also, around same prices.

Wow, these trucks are really hungry for power....

So I assume you were referring to these Lipos:

Poly RC PQ-5000XQ-2S Li-Poly Battery
7.4V 5000mAh (2 cells) 30C/60C
Rating: 30C (150.0A) continuous, 60C (300.0A) burst
Dimension: 142mm x 47mm x 24mm
Weight: 280 grams
Termination: Wire & PolyQuest/Hyperion tap
In Stock $91.87

I assume pricing is in US but still looks like a beefy 2S-especially for the price.

They also have what they call "Car Packs" with hard cases. Is that better (safer) to use in something like a flux and my blackjack 26 boat. The boat has 1 A3630-1500 water-cooled brushless motor & Water-cooled 45A programmable brushless ESC in it. ProBoat recommends using batteries with an ability to discharge at a minimum of 25 amps (25C)-so both look the hard and soft packs look cool in that respect.

The hard case models are only 9 grams more but the hard case ones have less current but still seem quite robust at 127.5A constant-price is good too (especially for a hard case).

I was looking specifically at these:

ROAR Approved (whatever that means)
7.4V 5100mAh (2 cells) 25C/50C
Rating: 25C (127.5A) continuous, 50C (255.0A) burst
Dimension: 138mm x 47mm x 24mm
Weight: 289 grams
Termination: Deans & PolyQuest/Hyperion tap
In Stock $89.99

Sorry for all the questions but I am just trying to get a good overall battery that I can use in most all of my RC vehicles (both truck and boat).

generis

06-15-2009, 06:25 PM

your boat would run off of a cell phone lipo. It's only using 25 amps, (nothing to do with ~~C rating.. NOT 25C as you stated...). Your boat would likely run for 2 hours on one of these flux batts.

Both your batts listed here are good choices. Also look at the Elite side of the site with their 5000CR battery (hardcase) and large amp ratings.

For the record, your boat current draw is 1/5th that of the flux

Extol

06-15-2009, 07:34 PM

If you get 30 min on a flux, you are one in a million. Good on you.
30 minutes on an e-sav is not far from normal.. But I can't pass the 12 minute mark on my flux trucks if I run them hard. If I use the throttle exponent down to 70%, I get over 20 min, so maybe you don't have your throttle set on full throw on the ESC calibration? WHo knows..

When i get a chance after work i am going to have to hook it up to the computer and see what i have everything set at. i am pretty sure last time i hook it up i max everything out to see what full power on 2s would run like. i did lose about 10 to 15min of run time from that

generis

06-15-2009, 10:54 PM

Thanks for doing that. Will be good to know .. . Maybe you could start a new 'esc settings' thread to keep it all together..
I think I have no drag brake, 40% reverse, 40% brakes, no punch setting, and 3.3v per cutoff. Basically a battery eater setting without front flips on braking

Aero007

06-15-2009, 11:41 PM

fabesav> cool boat!

they recommend these lipo batteries: http://www.hobbysuperstore.com/browse.cfm/4,79771.html , weight 170g/each

http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo/Files/PRB3311_Programming_Module.pdf

i had a boat too, once, nothing special, but only30osd in building market, 2 x 380 motors and are you crazy it was fun..it turned out it was this boat:

http://www.hobby-estore.com/balaenoptera-3140-107-rc-boat.html

may it rest in peace with my brother..lol sounds funny..

FAB ESAV

06-16-2009, 04:14 AM

Thanks Areo, I really love that boat. It is very fun to watch that thing fly.

I have to post some vids of it running with my brother-in-laws modded blackjack 26 (which is just stupid fast). These boats are what has me hooked on converting all my RCs to brushless power!

jeffp

06-16-2009, 07:40 AM

I get twenty minutes max on my Flux with 6000mAh PQ's, and I drive it like I stole it :) I relaxed a lot of the settings on the ESC though.. punch control @ 70%, startup voltage @ low, motor timing @ lowest (makes a big difference!).

Extol

06-16-2009, 02:25 PM

Ok look at the setup of my ESC when i got home. Punch was at 10%, break was at 50% cut off at 3.4volts. every thing was set to Max/Batt. Ran pretty hard for good 30min and started to rain. Charge up batt's they both needed around 4300 out of the 5000....meh idk